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Friday, April 9, 2010

Friday Night Internet Fight, Round 5

But wait, didn't round 6 happen last week, how is it now round 5? Yes, yes it did.
 Two things may have happened: a) the magnitude of the fight caused a rift in time 2) I fucked up and realized my error only after I couldn't change the title of the poll. I'm going to assume that, as I am utterly infallible, I did not fuck up. Nevertheless, I have fired up my Delorean to 88.8 mph for an adventure through space and time to bring you back the missing round.

This week- or is it last week?...time travel is confusing- we turn our attention to DakkaDakka, the fightingest gaming forum on the net. Somebody actually had the gall to ask if "Eldars ower powered?" Wow asinine and not even spelled correctly (more on that below, lol). Well I'll let the idiots do the speaking from now on (except for where I interject [I can't even help myself from interjecting my interjections]). As ever, none of the names have been changed to protect the innocent, but their avatars have been for my own amusement. After you've read this make sure you hit up the poll at the upper right of the page to vote on this week's winner.

goggari- im having little arguiment~ is that what you might see in Aguire, Wrath of God? about who are ~down with OPP ~ yeah you know me! and why. So hes saying that eldar wraithlords and phoenix lords are OP. What do you think? ~I think you're crazy, now back to writing on that chalkboard. Also since it turns out you're Finnish, I won't mock your grammar any more, besides I've already traveled into the future and seen that someone else will...U can also say what stats would be good for them. ~wait, what stats they have that are good or what stats they should have?
CrazyThang- Eldar (not Eldars, a minor quibble). ~actually you can get the Eldars codex at Barnes and NoblesIf anything Pheonix lords are too expensive to be justifiable over eldrad and the like.
Wraithlords have no invulnerable save and are huge targets. Sure T8 is hard to crack, but it's not like the heavy weapons won't be aimed at it anyway.
I could think of more specific reasons but I'm at work and tired so I'll let the others do it ~well thanks for sharing

Joetaco- uhhh i don't think eldar are OP. i play against Crazythang's eldar all the time and he had to learn through trial and error how to get around eldar's suck stat lines. I'm not saying eldar are bad or anything, but i think they require alot of finesse to play correctly.
As far as wraithlords and phoenix lords are concerned, i don't really no alot about eldar, but Crazythang has used Marun Ra (phoenix lord, right?) ~wrong there is no Marun Ra or even Maroon Ra and he was pretty annoying, but it didn't really own me. As for wraithlords they look like something thats going to draw alot of fire, but probably put down the hurt, but i doubt they're op...

Skinnattittar- I wouldn't say Eldar are over-powered, but they are definitely a very easy army to do well with, ~WTFuck?!? and have a high degree of list flexibility. ~Shit I've figured it out, you must have that Eldars codex. Well that or you have no idea what you're talking about. You can go with Mechanized Eldar, with excellent results, Wraith March ~to their doom, and have excellent results, Guardian Mob, ~you mean flamer target practice squad excellent results, and many many other excellent lists. Basically, if you use simple tactics and conservative lists your Eldar army will be very tough to beat.

Black Antelope- Eldar can be pretty good, but their ~English is your native language, you should no better than to make a mistake like that by no means overpowered. They certainly have far less alround competativeness than, say, SW (ie SW can be pretty compentaive with many different styles of list, Eldar less so)

PLords are poor units, being FAR to expensive for what they do, and lacking any Inv saves means they go squish pretty easily.
WLords - yeah, they look impressive, but their only W3 and very slow, and suck in CC if you can hit them with a unit that can hurt them (ie Hammerinators, 'Stealers, other MCs etc)

@Skinnattittar - I've disagree ~I have disagree too that there an easy army to do well with ~there are not easy to do well with :P - certianly Mech or Jetlock can be a bit point and click, but Guardian Mobs do not do very well generaly (I think we all know the expection to this) ~Please tell me that you aren't refering to Reece Robinns. I think Wraithwall suffers vs Mech, as its a very slow list, and has little CC potentail in its wraith units and their short range shooting (on the Wguard)

Enigma- No, eldar are by no means over powered. We pay the points and get what we pay for. ~or you get less than what you pay for even...The Warithlord is good, yes, but it's not a close combat monster. Most units with a non-independent character with a powerfist will take him down. There's lots of las cannons and missile launchers in the game and he suffers from wraith sight. The Phoenix lods ~oh lawd are very over priced for what they can do. They are not bad as such, but except for Eldrad they are not worth their price

Sanctjud- 'Overpowered' is spelt wrong ~umm so is spelled, unless we're discussing grain now, so is 'Eldar'...that's 2/3 words in the title, dude.
The topic itself isn't that useful as well. ~not useful, eh? I have traveled further into the future and seen that you will post several more times here...back to detention with you...unless you want the horns, that is....
Nothing is overpowered and nothing is cheese. "'Overpowered'/'Cheese' is the cry of the unprepared." ~I clearly don't appreciate your existence, but will grudgingly agree with you here.

Maybe they got outplayed? Maybe the dice sucked or were really hot? Maybe the player screwed up so bad it was hard for the Eldar player to not smack the opponent around? Etc.

Henners91- How about you try spell that title in Finnish? ~Eldar liian voimakas? Also how about you try and conjugating your verbs correctly.
Sanctjud- You quoted my whole post just to make a comment about my correcting the poster of a poorly spelt title for this topic? ~he did but I cut that out to make room for my own shenanigans It might be funny to you, ~and me but I think it's basic etiquette to get...hell even 50% of a title spelt correctly... ~basic etiquette to spell spell correctly?

Henners91- I don't find it funny, I just think you're being rude by vocally proclaiming an expectation of decent spelling from someone who clearly doesn't speak English as their first language

I can hardly speak a word of any other language... so I congratulate anyone who can even manage what this guy has. ~I accept your congratulations on behalf of multilingual individuals everywhere. There will be an awards ceremony in my honor following the fight.
ihatehumans- Does th OP mean OP as in over powered or OP as in over priced? ~I heard it stands for other people's privates....
the Dreadnote- Seeing as how the thread title is "Eldar overpowered?" I'm pretty sure OP stands for "overpriced" in this instance ~mmmm delicious sarcasm

Kroothawk- Every army that wins against you is obviously overpowered, because otherwise your carefully chosen army lead by your supreme intellect would have won ~und direkt aus Deutschland kommt Kroothawk wie ein Rettungsboot mit noch mehr Sarkasmus. Danke sehr. Kroothawk's German, you see...

erikthefool- wraithsight which happens at the worst of times, ~if you were expecting me to interrupt with something about Dickens here, you may currently be finding yourself mildly disappointed and the fact that almost nothing else in the list is over T3 make Eldar hard to play, and beatable by noobs with space marines :( ~really? The kids who are all like 'my devastators go pew pew' beat Eldar, all the time. really?defiantely ~Defiante: combining the finest principles of Italian automotive design to give you a road hugging ride you won't soon forget not overpowered, in my opinion.
although its fair to say i am pretty rubbish at it anyway ~durr, and speaking of hurr durrr...
terdurur- yes, we all know how overpowered a 200pts meele char without an inv save can be...

slimpickens- I am rock.

Scissors is working as intended.

Please nerf paper. ~ok so kind of funny, but I for one am getting really fucking sick of this fucking rock, paper, scissors analogy that keeps fucking popping the fuck up all over the fucking place...fuck. It doesn't make any fucking sense. Those 3 are each balanced in their own way in roshambo...your imagery is weak and wrong. To that end I shall be deleting the MANY references to rock paper scissors in the rest of this thread.
Sanctjud- There are no underpowered things...it's generally a cost issue ~causing many many things to be under powered relative to their points cost. please put your dunce cap on now.

I've used Lesser Daemons, Spawn, Possessed, Plasma Pistol Zerkers, Wingless Princes and rapid fire Raptors to good use...and they are supposedly the underpowered stuff... ~and your point is that you don't know how to build a balanced list?
Macock- So, if a space marine would cost 1 point it wouldn't be OP because it would be "cost issue"? Point cost can't be just put aside like that.
When dice are taken under consideration there are no 100% victors. But come on. We don't live in a fairy tale land ~I do. still waiting on my daemon prince charming, though, and nothing is just black or white. ~why do I have the sudden urge to smash a car and punish my genitals? Board games aren't 100% balanced. ~I know, mousetrap always had all those warped parts and never worked out right in the end. There are some thing more powerful than others. Some more and some less.

Sanctjud- But, they don't cost 1 point.
SM are costed appropiately...no issues.
Plague Marines are a point under while Possessed/LDs/Spawn are more than one point overcosted. ~by who's reckoning? Please issue a reworked comp-based codex for us

Their rules sets are still functional...just expensive for it. ~I edited your last sentence so it makes sense now. You're welcome douche The rules are not broken, it's just the points cost.
I can the flip side where the points 'could' be fine if the rules change, but it's just easier to change the points costs than the rules set. ~I can the verb

"There are some thing more powerful than others. Some more and some less. "

And when you take everythig into account it balances out and you deal with gak like it's always been dealt with.

/shrug. It is a Complete and total information available game...there is nothing that that can't be anticipated and everything has counters...whether it be units/list/deployment/tactics/blah. There is no cheese when it's available to everyone to use or browse through and see how it ticks. ~damn it, I dislike everything about you, but you keep making sense. well more or less...
Ex. Seer Council... Fortune fails, boom, the gak hits the fan.
Jaws and Lash... meching up mitigates it and makes it largely wasted the first half of the game...easy.
Nob Bikers: PBS, str 8 variety, counter charging Asstermy equivalents and sacrificial unit usage.
Necron Phalanx was the cry of the past, it doesn't show up any more.
What else is there?
Biker lists: focus fire, keep to terrain, stay higher in terrain...etc, etc, etc.

Skinnattittar- The fact that someone with little to no experience in 40k can come in on one of his first few games and tromp a seasoned veteran with a very competent list so easily.... well that suggests something is wrong. It is not as if the Ork codex is weak or difficult. ~apparently the veterans you know have been seasoned with an extra helping of weaksauce
Sir Wat- Someone wins one game with them and they're overpowered? ~duh. cheese, I say I've won games easily and lost terribly with the same list; dice rolls are kind of a large factor.

Skinnattittar- No, that was an example. I have played IG for over a decade and have won games with every one of the past four Codices, that does not mean the 3rd Edition Codex was gold, or the 4th, or even the current one. ~nor does it mean that you are on topic or have a point or an opinion that I value in any capacity I have consistently seen Eldar players take relatively easy wins against typically "superior" opponents. ~much as I have consistently seen you make a complete ass out of yourself here The Eldar Codex is neither new nor unfamiliar (as compared to Tyranids, Guard, or Dark Eldar~newest codex we have, don't you know), but there are still very few, and only very specific, ways of defeating Eldar. ~yeah, like shooting them, or killing them. can't get any more specific than that This suggests a very forgiving Eldar Codex that is tactically simple or very easy to use. ~aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh please turn off the stupid...plllllleeeeaasssse it burnses So in the hands of two equal opponents, one with an Eldar Codex and the other with any other Codex, the Eldar player has a much greater likelyhood of winning or at least controlling the outcome of the game. ~does that mean that if the Eldar player loses it was by his will?
Sanctjud- Wierd...~ i before e unless after c asshole from my experiences with dealing with, playing, reading up upon, has said the complete opposite of your whole post Skinnattittar.

From my experience, it's said that Eldar are hard to use/master and that they are fragile to balance their extreme niche units.

Just wierd ~please see me after class to hear ~it's HERE fuck face...oh wait...shit... the opposite.

Skinnattittar- The two major pointers for Eldar: Avoid the glass units and keep things varied. ~so don't take any of their units and make sure that you have such a bizarre combination of things that your whole plan hinges on one lynch pin unit? thanks There are literally dozens of very simple and very effective lists out there. You don't need to pour over a codex for days play testing dozens of different lists when you can very easily just jump on an online forum and ask "what's a decent Eldar list?" and get dozens of easy to build, cheap to make, and highly competitive lists. Utilizing them has not appeared to be very difficult in my experience. Eldar are difficult to master like Guard are difficult, except when you get it right, you're actually extremely competitive as opposed to only just competitive. ~I can't even begin to dissect what you were actually trying to say there. I hope you stop writing soon. Aww shit there's another paragraph coming.
So while making an Eldar list might be difficult from scratch with no assistance, ~but Eldars are the auto pwn nOOb army #1. You told me that. I don't know what to believe in anymore it only takes a click of the mouse to find what you need. Consider an IG Codex. That are many units in there that seem enticing, but simply jumping onto Dakka Dakka here and asking "what SHOULDN'T I take" will very quickly let you know what units to avoid (such as Ogryns, Deathstrike Missiles, Primaris Psyker, etc...). You don't need to spend years learning the army and playing a variety of lists to figure out how to use them to a degree of competency.

erikthefool- Again, i'll say that eldar are mostly T3 and very Expensive, which islready a bad start and that Eldar are one of the hardest things to learn to play with, and i know people who have been playing them for years and haven't mastered them.
but again, im pretty rubbish , having just started up, only 3 years experience :( ~well by Reece Robbins' standards that makes you damn near a veteran. Also here's a tip: if you're trying to make a point or change someone's opinion don't say that you know nothing.

Well there you have it. We've traveled through the warp all the way back to last week to bear witness to some epic stupidity. Sound off and make sure you vote on this week's winner.


Chumbalaya said...

Me brain am hurt

Dethtron said...

...from going BACK IN TIME?

Dverning said...

I motion that the poll be changed from "winner" to "who most needs to be set on fire". Though it would be a tie between Skinnattittar and Sanctjud, it would make me feel better.

The_King_Elessar said...

Ever want to cry, and gouge out your own brain? Yeah. That.

Heavy D said...

wow your comments on their stupidity made this slightly less painful to read

Anonymous said...

A couple of questions.

How the f*%k do you read through this utter trash and stay sane? (assuming you are)

How do you not make twice as many comments about the same utter trash?

Hilarious, but unbelievably painful read!

Great post. Wait... did I spelt that correctly? I mean come on. If you are going to call a non English speaker up on language at least make sure your post is tip top.

What was Henners91's prize? I think he should be genuinely be given one. I think he's the only one I don't want to poke in the eye! <3

Great read, once again!