Shortly after the post went up, the comment count started to rise exponentially. I thought I was fucked. Wading through a lot of comments to edit out all of the pertinent/funny bits is really hard and time consuming. Nontheless, I got stuck in and started reading. It soon became blatantly obvious that some 400 of the nearly 500 total comments on the thread belonged to noneother than The_King_Elessar of "Mind War FTW."
Inspiration struck. "I'll pass the buck off to somebody else this week, relegating the arduous task of bringing the funny to the surface of this mess to the man responsible or most of it," I thought. TKE was contacted and quickly jumped on the opportunity to guest write this week's fight, which I am assuming he now deeply regrets- again even editing small threads into a logical progression is almost as much fun as pouring fire ants into your anus...I can't imagine his pain at trying to tackle this monster. Respeck knuckles for TKE for putting this together.
Below is TKE's post for the week. Be sure to hit up the poll at the upper right of the blog to vote on this week's winner. As I'm allowing him to represent himself this week, TKE can't call shenanigans and be pissed at me for misrepresenting him :). As ever, none of the names have been changed to protect the innocent, but their avatars have been changed for my own amusement. TKE's commentary will be in blue, as is his style. Should I need insert anything further, it will be done in red, since typing in red is faster. Without further ado- straight outta Belfast, here comes TKE.
Friday Night Internet Fight starts with this bollocks article posted on, guess where? Answers in your copy books, now. If you said Bell of Lost Souls, you're wrong. It was Bell of Lost Souls.
This lovely piece of piss begins by determining that "If there is one codex more guaranteed to divide up the fans into the dueling love/hate camps its Chaos Space Marines. From the day it arrived in players hands, it had been bad-mouthed, tarnished, ripped apart, and ridiculed. But why?
More than any other reason, it's failings are not so much in the book itself, but its comparison to its last edition. More than any other codex, Chaos Space Marines was THE shining example of the "new-style slim/trim codex design ethos" replacing the "old-style hyper-options design ethos"
We've heard everything from the Cult Army adherents throwing bile, to Gav trying to defend his design decisions. " - You know what, this is good. This is solid. So far, no bullshit. Hope is momentarily raised in our breasts (mmmm, breasts...) and a flutter of an unfamiliar emotion stirs our hearts. This emotion is awe. Awe that BoLS may be about to provide a quality article that essentially reads - this Codex is shit. Then, we remember the Gansta' title, and our fleeting hope is crushed, like a Grot in the path of Ghazhkhull Ma Uruk Thraka, the Beast of Armageddon, the Scourge of...who cares, he's shit too.
Anyway, the article. "In the final analysis, the Chaos Space marine codex presents a set of nasty, lethal units served up with no frills, at just the right point cost." - Wait, what? ~that's my catch phrase you thieving git the first paragraph in the article more than 2 sentences long, and already you're talking about the Final Analysis? I haven't seen anything less Final since Final Fantasy 7! I mean, seriously, what the fuck Square-Enix. (Has anyone played 13? A friend of mine bought it, and I watched a fair amount of the early game....I wanted to rip out my own eyes with my dick, having ripped my dick off to use it as a crude crowbar - all just to avoid any more of the meaningless baby's first JRPG bullshit going on. PROTIP: If the intro lasts over 10 FUCKING HOURS then you need a fucking solid non-linear environment, and a fucking good storyline. With character development. oh, and incentives to do more than just hit Attack.)
Article, article, yeah. Notice, digression, because it hurts my brain less. Less than the blatant lie of "-Chaos Space Marines - loaded with enough basic equipment to make you wonder how they can even run, these guys are point per point perhaps the most solid troops choice in the game" Now, ignoring Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, IG Infantry Platoons, IG Vets, ISTs, SoBs, PMs, SM Scouts, Deathwing, Termagaunts, Eldar Guardian Jetbikes (yeah, okay, not them...) Tervigons, Zerks, Kroot, ...even NECRON WARRIORS for sheer resilience! - We have fucking Grey Hunters. How the fuck are they not better in every single way? Oryte, because they can't have Oblits in HS. That or the emo armour spikes...
Let's go on..."-Berzerkers - Move over Plague Marines, there is a new boss in town. Point per point, one of the best horde eliminators out there. These guys are the scrubbing bubbles of the tabletop." - Sigh. Are Zerks adequate? Why, yes. Do they carry any ranged threat, any ability to hurt Mech, or any duality? No, they bloody do not. Are they inferior to BA Assault Marines? Well, now you mention it, they're far worse. Can they kill more than PMs? Potentially, loads more. Will they survive if parked on an objective? Nope. Oh well, we have..."-Summoned Lesser Daemon - The "sleeper hit" of 5th edition. Super cheap, scoring, flexible, able to assault after deepstriking, accurate, and not part of the force org. These guys were MOCKED when the codex first arrived, but now I can't imagine a list without a squad or two, for objective insurance." - Overstated much? They're okay, sure. They can do a reasonable job of holding, GtG makes them survive as well as most things. Of course, they weren't really mocked for game playability...as we shall see...
Now, onto the fun part. See, as sloppy and poor as the article is, there are some decent points - it just isn't fleshed out anything like enough. Bigred elaborates in the comments some, and backs up his points fairly well, after a fashion. He had to be called out to do it - but he did. So...we COULD be mature and move along - but this is Friday Night Internet Fight Fuckers! Let's rip the mothercunting bag out of this cocksucker!
Some early digs are gotten in by welterweight contender Dingareth:
Great. So you've got 1 HQ, 3 Troops, and 1 Heavy that are good. Terminators, not so much as they require upgrading to be effective, unlike the C:SM or C:BA ones.
So 5 good units out of what, 20? Ask Vamps or WoC, a single good build does not a good, entertaining, and fun army build.
Basically, I couldn't disagree with you more.
Pretty reasonable comment, no? I thought so. Fortunately for us, culcreuch disagrees...:
Do you even own C:CSM? Every HQ is good, every troop choice is good Ahahaha! Good one, fuckface! I almost thought you were serious!- and that is saying something as they've 6 of them. Ability to count - surprising. There are only 2 or 3 units in the book that people choose not to take; with the exception of the spawn this is because of cost effectiveness. Give the book another read.
The 'debate' continued, with a witty rejoinder by Dingareth - highlights are:
2. If all the HQ choices are good, then why don't you see anyone using Ahriman?
3. 2 or 3 units? Possessed, Chaos Lord, most special characters, Dreadnoughts, basic Chaos Marines, Chosen, Bikes, Raptors, Havocs, Preads. I haven't seen these on the table in years. - Now, it may be me...but 9+ SCs =/= 2 or 3. Am I wrong? Am I failing basic maths?
Now, this tangent continues, with an intercession from SoonerBrian - a sterling example of idiocy. His lovely opening salvo contains the outstanding "The Chaos Lord, most of the special characters, Raptors, Havocs, Predators, and Chosen are all perfectly good. They're as good as their SM equivalents, certainly."
There's some funny shit going on in that tangent - but you're clamouring for the hero of this tale, I can sense it! Well, mighty Brego has carried me into the fray by this point - some time before, in fact...but my personal intercession in this tangent is, with great humility, awesome.
Venerable sage cajunman550 gives us the benefit of his 14 years of life by stating:
"Sorcs in CSM have one power those other codexes don't its called Lash of Submission. Oh noes! My Rhino is shaking with fear. Eldar just cry at a Lash...Lords have Daemon Weapons attached with wings If they ACTUALLY got weapons with Wings, they'd be cool...oh, wait, Tau do, in Gun Drones - and they're shit. and a combimelta nurgle lords are a bargin for the hurt they can put out. Raptors are expensive but that's because Chaos has better assault units called Beserkers. No, it's because Gav Thorpe overcosted them. Chosen don't infiltrate they outflank. Havocs I have used myself with great success 4 lascannons are expensive but tell that to my nurgle army that was bout 15-3-3."
My reply to this wonderful, wonderful post? The_King_Elessar "Win records mean nothing. I could go 10000000000-0-0 if I only played against a kitten." - So true. No kitten in the world can beat me at 40k!
truly wins this tangent though (IMO) with the response to the suggestion that Chaos LRs lack of PotMS is made up for by theri pure Assault Vehicle role..."Chaos Terminators are rarely ever used as a purely assault unit, and generally deepstrike in off of icons.
With that statement of fact, lets' go on...
To which I replied, wittily:
I'll tell you, instead, that your opponents are rubbish, or let you win.
meanwhile, is ploughing his own way into the comments section...
"Do YOU even own C:CSM? Every HQ is good?
Tyhus, 1 fist to the face and hes dead
Lucius, see above
Kharn, same weaknesses as above but cheapness mitigates this
Abaddon, becomes a joke when you roll a 1 for attacks (and you will do it at the most critical moment)
Huron, an over costed powerfist Sargent
Ahriman, your opponent doesn't care that he can cast all the mediocre psychic spells he wants"
added this stupidity...At least I know that I can survive a power fist to the face far better than you would, mate.
Do you have an adamantium skull? Are you Wolverine??
Sadly, he didn't respond. :(
Completely agreed, my only and biggest complaint. I throw up in my mouth every time i see death guard bikers. - great., You think you have the right to determine what the fluff is and should be, and no-one should play anything not in accord with your own personal vision. Nice guy.
Now, we've gotten this far into the article, adn we stil haven't witnessed my magical entrance into the thread. Well, in it's unedited glory:The_King_Elessar "YAY! Let's all talk out of our anus! Necrons are teh b3st3st Codex evar! Tey R0XX0rZ my Sockzorz.
Raptors are great!
Berzerkers are ABSOLUTELY better than Plague Marines, with their crappy Blight Grenades, T5, FnP, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Frags, Kraks - and they are one of the nine units that can take MELTAGUNS. Remember those? The only reliable way to kill enemy tanks, especially Land Raiders? AP1? Ring any Bells??
Bigred, in future, please put your name in the title - ~take it to the hole that way I won't accidentally read any more of your posts and have this overwhelming urge to go on a killing spree."
I'm awesome. ~and humble
joins in upon seeing my dazzling brilliance, with this little lolfest:
Oh, so I'm not lone Ynquisitor that dont like Bigred's articles...
Hiding war machines in woods, Wierdboy (You could say at least Warp 'ead) + Tankbusters as GOOD combo of GOOD units... now that. Wow.
While I somewhat agree with Berzerkers beeing nice unit Plagues rule.
DP - fine, but I want to barf when I see another lash, especially with Oblit-spam (which are actually good!).
Bringing up the recent past is fun, no? And now, an interlude of DUMB, from Duskstorm:
Just because your the only one flappin' your lips doesn't mean crap. Real competitive minded people will look at everything and anything that can give them an advantage or a look from a different perspective. Real competitive minded people know they don't know everything and are always learning new skills and techniques, you wanna be competitive, don't just shut out what you don't understand. And don't tell me you understand or you wouldn't be here flappin' those lips, telling everyone their wrong about their opinions on these units.
I replied, as is my stylee:The_King_Elessar Oryte.
Repetition of dumb things is fun, huh?
We've had the Codex (in 5th) for TWO YEARS. Things aren't going to miraculously get better all of a sudden unless the rules change, genius.
I'll tell you if you're competitive or not - just like I'll tell you you're not worth scraping off my shoe. Literally. I'd just throw the shoe out.
Not knowing everything =/= understanding the freaking game.
While he replied, it was a jumble of shit, and my further reply was too long to quote. Let's agree he's a ballbag, and move on...
had a gem:
"Oh Please. This is the only army I beat more often than Orks with my IG." - LOL.
also gets special praise for somehow evading the language fulter, and getting Stelek's name on BoLS - well done sir. :)I think Stelek would disagree with you. Haha. I like the book but I wish it feel some where in between this codex and the last. I like the troop section but I miss diety ~wargear light? specific wargear and vehicle upgrades. My berzerkers really want "destroyer" back on their rides.
has an increible reason why yopu can't compare 4e Codexes to 5e Codexes:But you seem to be saying something along the lines of "Why couldn't I have a 1080p HDTV in 1998?" When the CSM dex was published, Lash WAS the crazy off-the-wall ability. It was the power that every claimed broke the game. Why isn't it anymore? It surely is powerful, but the metagame adapted, just like it has for JotWW and just like it will for Blood Lance.
supports the BoLS Krew:
CSM is a very powerful Codex, without question. I always chuckle when I see people make the argument that they are subpar. They have amazing troops, great HQ units, and great heavy support and elites. ~but lack the distinct ability to be foot eldar
To a firm rebuttal from me:The_King_Elessar Hello Footdar-man.
Comparing them to Eldar Troops, especially in your army, no wonder you think they're so special. As for great HQs? Even your list has better HQs...
Sniping aside - a 'great' Codex would have multiple builds. CSM does not.
also throws some cold hard reality at the 'CHOAS IS AW3S0M3' Brigade:
Lash is not a strong build and I hate when the internet implies such. It just is not versatile and durable enough to actually be the foundation of a strong build. Chaos have very limited option, and that is why the codex is subpar in my opinion.
Princes, Plagues, Oblits! That should be the name of the codex. They are the strengths of the CSM codex, but when the rest of the codex is lacking they also become its weakness.
I win the thread, the internets, and surely this week, by telling those fools who advise 'Nurgle Biker Bomb' of 'Hope 8 Rhinos Reach the foe' lists:
Fact is, those armies aren't able to adequately take on all enemies - and THAT is why they aren't 'good'.
The Codex is better than some people say - but it certainly is NOT 'Da Bomb'
Trust me, I'm from Northern Ireland - I know a bomb when I see one. ~oh no he didn't..
Okay Dethtron- that's all I can do, it's after 5am...I shoulda done it earlier but procrastination something something...I'll finish that thought later. Please edit to your heart's content - I got most of the players in, I reckons. :)