Friday Night Internet Fight, Round 20

Dethtron is back for his triumphant return to Friday Night Internet Fight.  And this time he's brought some friends. 

Some weeks ago, while talking to Lauby, he started ranting about how funny it would be to have multiple people snowmobiling the same article Mystery Science Theater 3,000 style.  I quickly dismissed that idea as hilarious and nearly impossible to coordinate.  The following is what happened when I changed my mind and is certain to be the best or worst thing ever to happen to the Internet.  Regardless, it's about the most masturbatory thing I could possibly do short of filming myself jacking off and posting it on the blog.

The setup for this was simple.  I hosted a shared document and invited Lauby of Laubersheimer Industries and Brent of Strictly Average to join the fun.  Since Brent's family is poor and he can't afford a working headset, we had to more or less forgo using a VoIP service to riff off of each other, using a chat window instead.  Super awkward setup, but it made for some pretty great laughs, especially when I noticed that Kirby of- well he doesn't get a link, because we all know he'll provide us with one at some point- was online and invited him in as a wild card while the experiment was well underway.

Without further ado, I give you a fight from Warseer about a miscast non-issue in 8th edition WFB and a fight that 4 time zones and international borders couldn't contain.  As always, none of the names have been changed to protect the innocent, but their avatars have been for my own amusement.  Make sure to vote in the poll to pick the winner of this weeks fight.  If this is too long or  confusing, well that's your problem asshole.  Last, so that any of what follows makes sense, please pay attention to the legend below:

Dethtron

Brent

Lauby

Kirby

Sinsigel- This question is closely related to the ring of hotek issue and also the book of hoeth and teclis. I’ll bite: which one is it?

Suppose either teclis or archmage with bokk of hoeth rolled a successful casting roll including double(except double 1s). 7th ed ring of hotek would both turn it into miscast AND failed attempt to cast spell.

However, from what I've heard miscast no longer seems to be automatically cancelling irresistible force. Are there any notes on this in the new BRB? Maybe you should spend $75 and find out for yourself. I guarantee it would be quicker and less painful than whatever the hell is going to happen here. That’s a fact. There are three of us crowding this thing trying to say something clever.Something clever. And then there were 4- Wildcard bitches!!!! I like fantasy...

Tae- In 7th a miscast overrode an IF. ~In 8th edition, miscast overrides you Dude, old man Yakov was removed in the erata. Didn’t you read the FAQ for 8th edition jokes?

However in 8th Ed you can have IF and then miscast, so I would (pending an FAQ/Errata) rule it that if Teclis/Book of Hoeth rolls a double (and meets the casting value mind, don't forget that!) within Ring range I would do as per the double 6 result - i.e. resolve the spell then roll your miscast (again remembering Teclis ignores the first one per turn). This makes sense, is this illegal in FNIF? I’m not sure what kind of sense this makes, guys - I’ve not read halfway through and I’m fucking confused.

N810-Miscast is on double sixes.

Period. ~I think he picked up the extra period from the ATM machine or his SCUBA apparatus I hear that if you’re on your period that you shouldn’t swim around sharks or dolphins. unless you like dolphin rape or shark rape ~nobody like shark rape, Lauby. Too far man, too far...

Fail to cast is on a die total of 1 or 2,

and ends that mages magic phase.

Tae- Unless you cast or target within 12" of a model carrying the Ring of Hotek, in which case any double is a miscast.

Paraelix- But there is no rule to support Miscast failing your spell, as the only normal miscast is when you roll Irresistible... And that spell doesn't fail.

If you fail the casting value or if it is dispelled, sure. But not just because of miscast.

Tae- Oh I quite agree. Quite right, old chap. care for a spot of Tae, anyone? You misspelled tea. ~Kirby gets jokes You misspelled misspelled - who’s the editor here? Eat your cucumber sandwich already, man. And your vegimite. I didn’t mispell tea, you misspelled Tae. Wait, who am I supposed to be making fun of? Just because a miscast has occured doesn't automatically mean the spell has failed. It automatically means it automatically passed... automatically. I call foul on the use of the word automatically here. He’s confusing an otherwise confusing series of useless questions.

So, for example (shit, we already need examples?), Wizard A (Level 4) casts fireball on 3 dice and rolls 2, 5, 5. He has cast the spell on 16 and thus has to be dispelled or resoluved if the dispel attempt (if one is made) is unsuccessful. Once the spell has been resolved the roll on the miscast table is made and the appropriate effect applied.

A question would now be - what if the spell is dispelled? You want to waste dispelling fireball if it miscast...why? Does the miscast still occur? Guess this is one of several things to go in the FAQ (hopefully!) ~ha, no such luck, you hoser Why didn’t they all wait a week for the FAQ? ~because shut up is why!

Saldiven- I believe there is a sidebar or some such in the new rule book that states that it is possible to have miscast (or "loss of control") on rolls other than double sixes, and if a miscast comes from those sources, they are not also cast with IF. Also, it is possible to IF on rolls other than double 6 without also miscasting.

In other words, it is not that an IF and a miscast are one in the same thing, but the only way to get one of them (barring special rules) will also get the other; ie; the double six. It’s like the rules have been read by this one... I wouldn’t mess with this dude; his nickname sounds tough. He’s going to come riding across the steppes smelling like goat milk or something and kick our collective asses, right after he conquers Manchuria. I googled Saldiven and found this: http://babblemeister.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/gamer-chick2.jpg. I am sad. I followed the link - now I’m sadder! If you thought that was awful, peep this: http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/90c8f0d4-2a6a-42ba-a1d9-5e445ab47f78.jpg

I hope for your sake you didn’t follow the link. If you did, there are people out there who specialize in help for the condition you now have. You don’t think you have a condition? Close your eyes... you still see it, don’t you. I’m sorry to say, you always will.

To address the OP: under 8th ed rules, a miscast does not automatically result in a failed casting. As demonstrated by the main rules for a roll of double 6, it is completely possible to have both a IF and miscast at the same time. ~it is, in fact possible for that to be the only possible outcome of a double 6 roll, asswipe He should seal the deal by saying ‘automatically.’ Therefore, Teclis casting hear (he means near, right?) a RoH will get both an IF and a miscast when rolling doubles. I hear Teclis is near and we’ve got nothing to fear ‘cause Elves like it in the rear... also in the vagina but I hear they have those funny side ways vaginae... so your mileage may vary.

Gaargod- There is indeed a couple of paragraphs about it. ~there are indeed a problem with your conjugation However, the language is a little awkward (ha! Irony...), as its talking about automatic miscasts/IFs. The intent is almost certainly that you can have one without the other. Even though the rulebook says there are instances where one happens and another doesn’t. ‘The intent is almost certainly...’ Does this dude have commitment issues?

Otherwise, miscasts will lead to IF, but the spell doesn't fail. Amusingly, it does for Teclis as his rules i think direct that miscasts for him mean the spell fails.

N180- perhaps it will be errataed ~is that the Latin spelling? to be a failed cast and end the magic phase for that mage.

(on any double) (He threw that in, just in case we weren’t following.)

Punjoke- I assume the omission was intentional (that’s a huge assumption... actually, this is GW - that’s a stupid assumption, too); it's a way of dealing with all of those powerful miscast items (the infamous Ring of Hotek being chief among them. I heard that it was given to Liz Taylor by Richard Burton - you see, it was sold of as part of the Hotek esate... and none of you care, do you? Hugo Weaving fool!) Guys, that was actually way too funny for what we’re trying to accomplish here. The Ring of Hotek will still cause miscasts galore (that'll be more likely to kill your wizards) but it won't protect the unit from the spells, essentially allowing you to sacrifice a wizard to blow the unit up.

Eumerin- Or better yet, sacrifice a wizard to blow the Ring up. Or a hobbitt. Also effective. If I misspelled ‘hobbitt’, its Dethtron’s fault. You misspelled hobbit... and you’re on a computer, you couldn’t click a button or something?

:P

i.e. move your level 1 wizard up next to the unit with the ring, cast a spell using 7 power dice (i.e. guaranteed to roll doubles), and then watch your opponent sweat as you roll on the miscast table... Ya cause your opponent isn’t going to go on a wizard running towards me and he’sgoing to blow himself up in front of my face...what to do? I’ll stand pat! Always bet on pink.

theunwantedbeing- The limit is 6 but basically yeah, “Hey, Marv, how was your fishing trip? Did you catch your limit” “Thanks, Dave, It was great. I caught 6 but basically yeah fish” thats a reasonable plan.

Also works in blowing away (heh, heh... he said, “Blowing.”) most of the unit with the ring too.

Or just cast a spell to remove the guy with the ring, you might miscast but the spell wont fail so long as you hit the casting value.

Bramgaunt- Ok. People really need to stop saying miscast, this term is not used in the new book at all. ~except for pages 34 and 37 according to the index, but hey thanks for being super helpful there guy. And in this thread. Which is important. ~no Kirby, nothing about this thread is impotant. (Did you mean to say ‘impotent’ because I resent the shit out of that accusation - that bitch can’t prove anything... what? Oh, never mind then; carry on.)

Punjoke- Yes, it is, it's just not as clearly defined as it was.

Tae- Odd, because the Miscast table included in the magic section would suggest otherwise ... Aw shit, you guys just got Tae-bagged. Better than Tae-boned...

I dropped it - how do I get back in the chat? ~Brent, come back.  Don't go into the light.  Think of all that you have to live for- like learning how to use a computer for instance.

Bramgaunt It's "loss of control" ~it was only a matter of time before I stopped listening to this ass clown now and provided a link to Joy Division instead.... Al items referring to miscast refer to loss of control starting 8th.

Bac5665- Yeah, the book I read used miscast, not loss of control. The book I read had a lot of pictures in it and I had to read it with my Dad. On the plus side, I know where babies come from now.

Punjoke- No, Loss of Control ~seriously what the fuck rulebook are you guys reading? I’ve got “loss of concentration,” “irresistable force,” and “miscast,” but I’ll be buggered if I can find any reference to “loss of control” (I lost control once in the middle of a hallway, but the line to the bathroom was really long... luckily, it was that kind of party, so no harm done... what were we talking about?) can only happen on Double 6's, or if some spell or ability forces it (I don't think such a thing exists yet, but it could be added to any new army book.)

Bramgaunt- O rly. Show me the rules for miscast, then. p34. Fuck you. ya rly. :)

jamano- whatever you think the rules for "loss of control" (The rules are drink way too much ‘cause you’re talking to the cute girl then lose any chance with the cute girl because you lost control...) are, is actually the rules for miscasts. ~page number or it didn’t happen. p34. I love you. Rly?

As an aside, please pay attention: to all you terminally lazy people out there, it took me longer to deliberately type the word ‘really’ without the e, a, and second l than if I’d typed the whole word without trying to cut corners. Do we really, really need to be that lazy? Yes. STFU.

Bramgaunt- Miscasts, as defined by the rulebook can still occur on their own (via spells or items that already exist.) This is not Loss of Control.

I'll go through it one last time. Failsafe. I sense a casting of the spell Foot in Mouth coming...

1st: Pick your powerdice. Roll them. Pick your nose, flick it. <--- somebody erase this joke as weak, please. *flicksnipple*

2nd.: Determine the result: Add the total number. Check if you reached at least a result of 3 with all dice you rolled. It doesn't matter how many 1s you rolled, as long as the total result, befor adding any boni, the plural of bonus... or boner. No, its definitely boner. is at least 3, you are safe, and proceed to step 3. If not, proceed to step 4.

3rd. You rolled at least a 3? good. Now apply any bonur ~if you even try applying you bonur anywhere near me, I’m out of here- off like a prom dress.... the casting wizard may have, including magic items, special rules and most obvious, his caster level. If you reached the necesarry spellscore, the complexity, casting value, whatever you wanna call it, proceed to step 5. If not, proceed to step 4. That... is a whole lotta commas. Not too sure they were used correctly. You should probably considering hiring some guys to cut that sentence into smaller pieces and then toenail some periods in. Remember kids, grammar is a law, not a suggestion.

4th. You did not roll a natural, speak unmodified 3? ~if the unmodified 3 speaks, does it get a treat? What gets me about this one is arrogance of this line... like you don’t know what a natural 3 is? I mean, you didn’t get laid in high school so you’d know what a ‘natural’ result on a dice roll is... so feel free to be righteously indignant. Or you didn't reach the casting value? This is bad. Your wizard suffers from "lack of concentration" and may not cast any more spells this magic phase. Proceed with your next wizard, if you have one.

5th. You've casting value? Hooray!! You have no chance to survive make your time our opponent is now free to try to dispel your spell. If he suceeds, pick up energy dice and another spell and start again at step 1. If he fails, the wizard he used to dispel may not try toe reached th dispel again this magic phase, and you resolve your spell as usual. Great! You just melted some faces. ~Everyone knows that this is the only thing in the world actually capable of melting faces...The trick is to get up on the really tiny strings and play really fast - meedleymeedleymeedleymeedleymeedleymeedleymeedleyMEEEEEEEEEE!

6th. You rolled two 6s (or more) See that shining beacon of raw, uncontrolled enegry? ~all I can see is that glistening raw bacon. Thats your wizard. Awesome, isn't it? He just made a roll for irresistible force. You bypass steps 2, 3 and 4 and you immediatly resolve your spell. No attempts to dispel it. Booya!! And...wait for it..MIS fucking CAST!!!!

Guys, I have to interrupt here. This dude is totally talking down to us, isn’t he? Let’s read more to see if my theory holds water...

After disintegrating the hell out of your enemy, your wizard now has to face the consequences. He has to roll on the "Loss of Control" chart. miscast, p34. After you resolved the spell you just cast, roll 2 D6.

Let's say the unlucky wizard in question just cast a LvL 3 fireball with Irresistible force. You have detirmined the number of hits caused to the target (3D6), rolled to wound and removed casualties. Now your wizard rolls 2 D6 and scores a 7. You check the Loss of Control chart miscast, p34. p34: if it exists, there is porn of it. Wait, that’s the closely related rule 34. and check the result: Phew, that's a lucky one. Each model in b2b with the mage (including monstrous mounts/chariots), but not the wizard himself, suffers a S10 hit. Afterwards, you lose D6 Powerdice frome the pool. Start again at step 1.

Yup - there’s no doubt about it. This guy is talking down to us. He thinks you, the reader, are a complete idiot who couldn’t follow the simple words he was using, so now he’s taking you by the hand and walking with you, pointing thing out he thinks you should know, before he gets down on one knee, looks you right in the face, and spits on you. Fuck him. Too harsh? Brent, I love you, buddy, but you aren’t very good at being mean to people. I know I’m feeling bad about using the word ‘fuck’... is that okay here? Its not OK in the sense that it’s not enough. Okay, so if I told you to fuck right off, that’d be okay? Maybe throw in a ‘cunt’ or something and we’re good. Got it - thanks for the advice, man. You’ve made me feel right at home. ~hey why don’t you two cunts fuck off and get back to the fight aw but I had a bet on who would touch the other one first! ~Docking initiated!

Special cases. Man, I gotta admit that I just stopped giving a shit right here. I mean, I have had some really fun things ruined by boring explanations over the years but this is intense. Can we go back and edit this stuff out before the final cut? And then maybe save it for a super director’s edition boxed set that only the meganerds will bother with?

Teclis/Book of Hoeth and the Ring of Hotek

Teclis and the book of Hoeth cause irresistible force on each double. They only cause loss of control on a double six. Pretty clear. So, teclis pics up 6 powerdice and scores 4,4,5,5,6,1. thats 25, + 9 for his wizard level of 4, 29. 113, -e, 13, 8 - RANDOM NUMBERS!!! enough for ANY spell. and it's cast with irresistible force, yay. No dispels on this baby. But there's no double 6. So no loss of control. Brilliant! I sense sarcasm. And douche bag. I definitely smell a hint of asshole.

Now, a Imperial Firemage tries to throw a fireball on a unit of cold one knights (whose champion has the Ring of Hotek, though the madly chuckling mage is not aware of that - yet) He picks up 3 Power dice and scores 5, 5, 6. Lets say he was level 4 aswell. Thats 16 + 4 - a 20. Anough for lvl 3 fireball!! Awesome, but wait... there's the ring. The ring says it causes loss of control on any double. Only double 6 causes irresistible force in addition. So: The mage scores a 20 with a double. The Dark elf player has now to make a choice. You see, there’s a pretty thick line between hypothetical and annoying. It’s pretty hard to miss. You’ve somehow managed to mnot seethis line, and crossed right over it into a level of irritating that I didn’t think was possible outside of trying to explain the University email creation process to people who don’t speak English. Bravo.

1st: dispel the spell, because he's afraid of 3D6 S4 hits. In this case, the firemage won't suffer the loss of control.

2nd: let the spell pass, ~none shall pass resulting the knights first to suffer §d6 hits S4, and afterwards the firewizard has to roll on the loss of control table. One time I was playing D&D and got hit by a Displacer beast and took π2€ damage. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PROOFREAD YOUR FUCKING MINDLESS BULLSHIT RULES REVIEW YOU MALODOROUS DOLPHIN RAPIST! Did you know Dolphins have a penis that hides in their body until they want to use it? Not to be confused with this dude’s lack of male genitalia...

Now: Teclis VS Ring of Hotek. The Farce in Charce? Get ringside seas for the magic heavy weight chapionship! hang on... I gotta type up my math club notes.

This one's pretty cool. Now he does opinion, too. He’s multi talented. Each double would result in both Loss of Control and Irresistible Force (as long as Teclis reaches the needed casting value. If not, none of the two cases apply). So Teclis would unstopably melt anything into a withering mass of decay, ~or bury his opponents ‘neath a towering pile of overused adjectives- did this guy go to fantasy novel writing camp or something over the summer? while suffering terrible results himself. Awsome!!

Hope this is clear. OH MY GOD! It is most certainly not clear. We’ve made it less so... As far as we can tell, you’re translating the magic rules from another language into Esperanto and then into English. Between all of the horrible misspellings, missing words and whatever the fuck brand of cranial insanitosis it is that you’re rocking, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Also, I refuse to read the rules and I base my conclusions on absolutely nothing. I stopped reading after special cases. but it’s called miscast ffs.

HellRaid- Actually, when I looked at the rulebook yesterday and earlier this week, I saw no section dedicated to describing "Loss of Control". Well, when I refused to look at the book, just this very second, I imagined that there was a section on Kim Kardashian’s naked body. Guess which version of the rules I’m using for this FNIF. (... and don’t guess what he was doing with it - your fingers will stick to the keys...) There is a description of "Irresistable Force" on one page, and on the next page there is the description of "Miscasts" along with the "Miscast Table".

Rolling double 6s causes IF and a Miscast. This combination of the two may be defined as Loss of Control, but I personally don't recall that specific wording being used at all. ~probably due in large part to the fact that it never was used anywhere in the book. What, you mean all that explanation stuff above was wasted? Say it ain’t so.

There is a paragraph in the Miscast section the specifically says that items which cause a Miscast (ie Ring of Hotek) will not additionally cause an IF.

As I recall, it does not state that the spell automatically fails if you Miscast; if you're in range of the Ring of Hotek and roll a double, yet still meet the casting value, the spell works as normal. You just roll on the Miscast table as well and the spell can be dispelled as normal.

My book has a section on Kim Kardashian’s glistening, naked flesh. Confession time: I’’ve stopped reading HellRaid ‘s post entirely. Lets all enjoy this peek into my sexual fantasies... together. Right now, Not Brent just came over wearing some mink gloves. And nothing else. Bow chicka wow wow. Not Brent would be wearing three mink gloves... guess which hand he’d want you to shake?

Irresistible Force and Miscasts are specifically defined as being two separate things - but the one thing I am unsure of is specifically where it says a double 6 causes both of them; what I mean by this is that I am unsure whether there is a separate section saying "a double 6 causes both" (which may well be the Loss of Control section everyone keeps ranting about) or whether the IF section itself states "an IF always causes a miscast". If it's the former and not the latter, a Book of Hoeth wielder (for example) will not normally miscast when they IF on the roll of a double.

BramGaunt- it's really odd then, because the german book doesn't use the term miscast anymore, we got a new terminology and a paragraph in the book explaining what the difference between loss of control and miscast is. ~ach scheiße! GW, ihr habt schon wieder gewonnen, Arschlöcher!! Sieht aus sowie alles is ausser Kontrolle geraten  I shouldn't have taken it for granted that the term changed in all languages, ~that’s right, because in American it stayed the same, so why don’t you go back to foreign and eat sausages and wear a Dirndl or whatever the fuck it is you guys do though I find "miscast" kind of.... misleading (was it any more misleading than the explanation you took hours writing?), because it implies a failiure to me, and you didn't fail to cast the spell at all. You just lost control of your magic afterwards. So you got all high and mighty of what you thought clear and specific rules implied...how’d the French lose again? They showed up.

Anyway, HellRaider is right about the details. I want to apologize for my, hm, (...is he attempting to vacillate? The fucking nerve!) arrogance might be to strong a word, however, it is one of many ‘right’ words but it went into this direction. Douchery? ~Überheblichkeit?

Mr_Rose- The "mis-" prefix doesn't necessarily imply failure in English so much as it implies incorrect completion (I’ve got your incorrect completion right here.) or procedure. ~hmm, let’s see what the fine people of Webster’s have to say about that (God no! Please don’t jump feet first right into the hack writer’s most lame resource, the dreaded ‘dictionary definition.’): “mis
adj : (prefix) bad or erroneous or lack of; "the prefix `mis'
means bad in `misdeeds', erroneous in `misunderstand',
and lacking in `mistrust'"” looks like you MISsed the bus on that one (you guys are smart, think of something better to say there....) ~editor's note- this is way funnier since this made it into the final draft untouched there uh.... uh... this is all a MIStery to me. fuck. It’s a MIStery to me... shit, you did that joke.

Personally, I always found it weird that the term was used for abject failure, because of this.

Also, Irresistible Force always casts the spell, even if the total wasn't sufficient to cast it normally. So if you roll 6,6,1 when going for a 15 power spell with a level 1 wizard (yes, crazy, but hush) you total 14 but still get IF and miscast

Polybus- I'm still wondering about this for Gelt. ~oi! What do you guys think?

Teclis rules: Hoeth Drools. Burn.

Teclis may ignore the effects of the first miscast he makes each turn. The spell is still a failure, but Teclis is able to dissipate the magical energies harmlessly and suffers no ill effects.

Teclis FAQ: Someone finally referenced the FAQ? Seriously, they couldn’t wait a week for the answers, they had to get involved in this circle jerk... which is not at all what Dethtron, Lauby, Kirby, and me are doing...

Page 66 – Teclis, War Crown of Saphery

Change the second sentence to “The spell is still cast with

irresistible force, but Teclis is able to dissipate the magical

energies harmlessly and suffers no ill effects.”

Gelt Rules:

In addition, it allows him to ignore the first miscast he suffers. In this case, the spell does not work, but Balthasar does not need to roll on the miscast table. ~so answered your own question? Future Dethtron from 5 lines from now thinks not.... Okay, the universally tall cylinder is rotating, soooo STOP!

Gelt Faq:

nada

Bac5665- How is that confusing?

Its obvious that GW are idiots, clearly, any and all problems are GW’s fault - this includes, but is not limited to: everything but the rule itself is also crystal clear. That’s also GW’s fault.

Polybus- So just the spell doesn't go off if you roll double 6's? I'll just play it that way. ~Present Dethtron (previously from the future) is angry about your reading comprehension. Can I play then that all your spells miscast and don’t go off whilst all mine use IF with no miscasts? Okay. Are we done? I’m tired I am. Being ruthlessly mean is tough.