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"Dethtron, you are...an asshole" - 38% of Dick Move Readers


" I probably won't read unless I'm bored as shit at work" - A. Hack



"I cannot bring myself to actually read this drivel"- anonymous

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Tuesday, July 6, 2010

The Tau of Sucking

After a series of recent tournament victories and what I can only assume is a rebirth of the golden age of robot suits, the lowly Tau seem to be coming back in popularity.  That's why in my daily dose of pain dealt out by Dakka Dakka my curiosity was peaked when I saw the "Tau In 5th" post that popped up recently.


It all started out innocently enough with this- a legitimate question:

the weasel king- So I'm pulling my Tau off the shelf (aka the floor of my parents garage) for the first real time since 5th edition. It's been so long I have mostly forgotten the tactics of everything but my 18 rail rifle list... Could anyone offer competitive tactics that are still effective in 5th? (on a side note: my main opponent plays ba at 2k normally, sometimes tank heavy sometimes death company heavy)





As soon as I read that I knew that there was a ton of crap about to be thrown at him.  I was actually quite surprised when most of the advice shot at the weasel turned out to be pretty sound.  Notabot187, as you'll see, was pretty spot on with advice about candy coating with Kroot, blocking movements with piranhas, not taking shitty battlesuit configurations, and other sensible things.  Then, he gets steamrolled by some idiot named focused fire, whose mother must have been binge drinking from the moment of his conception all the way through to his birth.  Sadly, Notabot187 only has 500 posts to his name, compared to focusedfire's 3,000 posts.  In the world of the forum quantity is everything, as well all know.  I fear that king weasel may take the bad advice to heart, believing that focusedfire is "experienced" rather than a loud mouthed dumbass.

Here's what happend at the end of the thread.  Focusedfire, idiot though he is, was kind enough to quote everything relevant, so I'll just put it into the form of a conversation as I oft do.  Then I'll snowmobile it into the ground (not snowball- these are two very different things, and I prefer one much more than the other). 

focusedfire- @Weasel King- I'm going to go through and address Notabots post line by line, because while much is sound some small bits are down right absurd and overall he makes to many assumptions based off of a flawed tactical philosophy. ~well I'm glad that you're a tactical authority, please enlighten us oh wise one  Also, if I think it is our responsibillity to help you to save money by only recommending the needed units to update your army. ~why did he ask for the most cost effective update?  Oh he didn't, you're just assuming that, thanks


 
notabot187- Kroot are important. Sure they don't look like much, but they are the green bubble wrap that keeps your army safe. ~yay, sound advice!  Never thought I'd see it on a forum...especially dakka
 
 
 
 
 
 
focusedfire- First line should have been this question,"@Weasel King, What level of play are you looking to engage in?" ~first question for you: did you read where weasel said he wanted a "competitive" list?  FAIL! and then quickly followed by a,"What do you have in yout army?". Knowing this will help us to give you cost efficient suggestions. ~which was, again, not ever asked for anywhere in the thread by anybody


Also, The advice completely ignores the kroot as an offensive unit ~hahahahahahahahahaha.  ok, I'm ...hahahahahahaha good luck with your CC tau army dipshit and is a statement made from the school of attrition warfare, which is something to be avoided ~why?  for moral reasons?  That Kroot warrior had a wife and a clutch of eggs back home, now he's left them with nothing.  Oh the humanity krootmanity. Now,having said such, I will point out that the Kroot-wrapping is an old tactic from 4th ed so you should be familiar with it. ~to be familiar so you can avoid using it.  You are confusing.  One might even say unfocused.

notabot187- Don't go with devil fish spam, mech is good, but devil fish are too expensive to bring, and don't have much fire power. ~man you're on fire, thanks.  funny how the Nettards have all gotten the idea that mech is the only viable or even best choice for any army. 







focusedfire- Again Notabot makes an assumption here as opposed to asking what the OP's goals and preffered play style are. ~play style is damn near irrelevant when your army has a handful of subtle variations on essentially the same build as it's only viable options.  If the type of army proposed by notabot doesn't fit your play style find another army or get used to having your ass handed to you.  Way to assume that you know what you're talking about focusedfire.  Devilfish Spam can work when each are loaded with Seekers and there are the right number of marker units.


Now,I will agree that redundancy is better than spamming ~are we reading the same thread here?



notabot187- Take pirahna, they block the enemies movement, and can be equipt to deal damage to mechanized units. ~no way dude, movement blocking could never work, it's way too situational.  ::waits for Kirby to punch him::








focusedfire- This statement has you paying 140 minimun to 300-400 maximum for a line blocker. ~which is prone to blocking even more expensive units.  Hell it's even prone to killing them and trapping troops inside transports, where they die.  Pretty fucking efficient if you ask me. This illustrates the problem with the dogmatic cookie cutter approach to list building. You will spend points on units and fail to use them to their fullest potential if you take statements like these as gospel. ~what the hell?  News flash, using proven tactics is bad.  More at 11:00  The first Piranhas have a variety of uses but the primary one is as a fast striking unit that remove priotity threats early to mid-game. ~and blocking movement.  You see if you are slowing down your enemy, that means you get more turns of shooting with your retarded amount of firepower that you're packing.  You can drop your drones off to be bubble wrap/line blockers if need be and you equip your piranha with fusion blasters and seeker missiles, hold them in reserve and when they come in your run them 24" to angle for the back armour shot with the seekers while givibg the piranha a coversave. ~wow.  just wow.  So you propose using them for the early game, but letting them sit in reserve to rot and do nothing for potentially the entire game.  Then waste another turn zooming in for position.


There are different ways to use these effectively, Some are just more aggressive than others. ~and yours are far dumber than others

notabot187- Marker lights are your friend, but dont' take more than you need (a smallish squad of pathfinders is all you need)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
focusedfire- While not bad advice, this statement assumes that you are going to run his list as opposed to your own personal list made to fit your personal playstyle. ~of course it would.  His advice inherently assumes this by it's very nature, just as I assume that your head is lodged firmly inside your colon Some people run two units, some run one and some run no pathfinders and all can be run successfully.
 
 
 
notabot187- Don't take more fire warriors than you need to. The ones you do have to take, put in a devil fish and keep them safe.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
focusedfire- Fire Warriors are better than a lot of people give them credit for. ~yeah, they're not so bad, but they aren't battlesuits and they aren't going to be able to offer defensive protection like Kroot.  The issue is more of an opportunity cost one tan a sucking one.  I find it funny that the same people who bash the FW's will praise the Dire avengers whe both use the same tactic of hop out of the transport and hose the unit on the opjective down. ~hey I've got this apple here.  Could you please compare it to this orange in 500 words or less?  It isn't that the Fire Warriors that are so much of a problem as it is people failure to cordinate their fire and problems inferent within the devilfish's lack of speed and firepower. ~and the fact that pulse rifles mean dick to a mechanised opponent, whereas plasma rifles and missile pods do.


notabot187- Don't be tempted into bad suite configurations. Most of them are bad, I recommend only missile pods and plasma for weapons.







focusedfire- This is where the advice gets a bit absurd. ~relative to what?  Your advice?  Who's really being absurd here?  There are several very effective configurations with each depending upon your personal playstyle. I can't recommend a configuation because I have no idea as to what your prefferred build type is. ~here's my recommendation for configuring a real life battlesuit for yourself:  put any gun on it, point the barrel at your face, and test fire. 




notabot187- Broadsides and hammer heads for your heavy support. 2 slots of one, and 1 of the other. Which particular ratio, is personal preference. ~oh wait, so you really are allowing for play style and preference, within reason.  way to shit all over focusedfire's criticisms of your work.







focusedfire- This would be sound advice xcept that it ignores the Farsight bomb list and a couple of Piranha feeding frenzy lists. ~clever names to not a good list make.  Again, need to know what type list your looking to play. ~how have I not commented on your raping of the English language yet?  I would suggest that you lurk over at Advanced Tau Tactica and maybe do a search on Tau tactic theads here at Dakka. ~I would advise you to go to Tau Online and witness the carnage.....ummm maybe not.  better yet, just follow notabot's advice.  It's really good. 




notabot187- No matter what people tell you, the ninja tau tactic (I think the war gear is called positional relay, book not in front of me) is NOT good. Sure it will kill a Newb or scrub, but its not a serious tactic.





focusedfire- This statement right here jepoardizes any credibility notabot might have. ~well good thing you had no credibility coming into this other than your 3,000 posts  Ninja Tau is effective but not when used dogmatically by unimaginative individuals ~wow you know what dogma means.  go find more big words to make yourself sound impressive you cunt. It should never be used as an always on tactic, but rather as a tactic that emphasizes tactical flexibility. The Posi-relay is the best 15 points you can spend in your army when used to adapt your deployment and army to your opponents. Even if you use it to only call in one much needed unit on turn 2 or turn 3. This is a tool that lets youset the tempo of the battle when properly used.


If you go back over tourney results where this has been used by people that know what they are doing you will see the primary problem with ninja Tau is the temptation to reserve the whole army every game. That is not the way to run ninja Tau, instead you use the posi-relay to be a completely unpredictable headache to your opponent during deployment. ~why are you being so dogmatic and telling me how to run a tactic?  That's not very flexible.  You didn't even bother to ask me about my play style or how much money I'm willing to spend.


notabot187- Tau really wants to be fully mech, but the fish of fury list from 4th is obsolete. So that leaves them with semi mech, with heavy crisis suite support. Tau are about the only army that can pull off a hybrid list ~well except for IG, SW, BA, etc etc.  Word to the wise, just because mech works for a lot of armies doesn't mean it is the best for every army , and they are quite good at it.
 
 
 
focusedfire- Yes, the Tau are very good at hybrid lists and have been that way since their first codex. You will find that many of your 4th ed list will need tweaking due more to obsolete wargear than to overall army structure. The primary reason why the 4th ed. lists were abandoned was due to obsolete wargear and shifts in the meta-game. Currently, the meta has come back around to where one of my regular 4th edition list would be considered a standard list except for the decoy launchers, Command and control node and the occasional set of sensor spines.


What really changed in 5th ed. isn't so much the list strategy but the tactics employed on the game table. ~looks like somebody needs to start a thread called "Armies in 5th:  What's Changed?" so that you can pull your head out of the sand and acknowledge the fact that what worked in 4th normally isn't good today.  It's only been 2 years, why should I expect that you'd figured that out by now?

I hope this helps some. Let us know what style and level of competition you are expecting to play. When we know that then the advice given will be more cost efficient upon your pocket book ~I hate you.  I really do.  You are all that is wrong in forum advice. 

18 comments:

Brent said...

Dethtron:

One day, my boy Herr Fernseher and I convinced a real adult to buy us some booze... and that dates this story, circa '94...

(back in my day - gag)

Anyway, we solved the worlds problems but couldn't remember how the next day, but we did decide the best comedy is the comedy of the absurd.

It's why I really love your blog. This was top-notch faux-homicide, my friend.

Brent

k.Blas said...

Dethtron, this is America. Whomever has the most toys wins...or in this case post count, asshole and duchery aside. Didn't you know that?

Chumbalaya said...

That was painful to read. The Dakka bits at least, Dethtron is still awesome.

kennedy said...

Thought you weren't doing a FNIF this week... especially on Tuesday... Lol.

This was amusing. I like it, I do.

Dethtron said...

this was Tuesday Internet Fisticuffs, LOL.

Really there just wasn't a better way to present this, since it had such a good point, Counter-point flow to it.

plus this was much less stressful to put together than your typical FNIF...and it REALLY pissed me off.

Brother Loring said...

is notabot187 Kirby in disguise. Oh, of course not, no references to 3++!

Heretic said...

Focusedfire really needs to start listening. Notabot did say some things that I don't agree with, but brought the better advice. All in all a good TIF and entertaining.

Point to Dethtron.

Tinkling Koala said...

Sucks t be the OP showered in this shit. There should be a Dick Move Victim Aide Program, just email a link to the blog to everyone who asks a sincere question on Dakka or Warseer. They all get fucked for it.

Smurfy said...

"Hai I has mo' post count dan you'z.

I's auto-right and you'z wong!"

FUCK YOU SIR!

Kirby said...

Who votes I should just go drop a link to the How To Tau article ?

Kirby said...

Too late!

Oh and...

*punches Dethtron*

Messanger of Death said...

hehe I'm going to do one better and post this... let the anarchy begin :D

Messanger

Kirby said...

FNIF brewing?

Messanger of Death said...

Breaking news - A reliable source has revealed that Kirby and MoD are actually the same individuals. We will keep you updated as the story unfolds...

Messanger

The_King_Elessar said...

*GASP* I KNEW it!!!!

In other news, this was Dakka, so I'm going to flame some shitheads. Weeeeee!

Damon said...

I'd accuse Rikimaru of masquerading as focusedfire, except that FF has a better grasp of the English language.

It's idiots like FF that make Tau look like a terrible army. I guess I have all the dolts like him to thank for making me look like a goddammed Tau genius just for being competent.

FF: I salute thee!
Rikimaru: Nada. You still suck.

Chumbalaya said...

Ion cannons, Krootox and Ethereals.

I think we're beyond Kool-Aid here folks.

Lauby said...

In any case, it turns out that weasel kink doesn't really want advice, he just wants people to validate his line of thinking and/or to tell him how to magically make his shit list win without changing anything.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/304138.page#1726394