Friday, July 23, 2010
Today's Librarium online thread is a little old. Damon (who I think is number6) e-mailed it to me nearly a month ago and I'm just now getting around to using it. I was going through my inbox and stumbled across this again and can't believe that I'd forgotten about it. Experienced Necron killers. Keyword, KILLERS is a post with a stupid title that is full of so much insanity that I don't even know what to say about it. It starts out with somebody asking for help beating or playing Necrons (I'm not sure which and neither is the original poster from the looks of it). Fast forward 19 or so pages and we have covered everything from drop pod marines to Tau to awful rules debates and even the INAT FAQ and I don't feel like we really learned anything about Necrons. I would rather have sex with Rachel Ray than have to experience this thread again.
What you're about to read is, obviously, a condensed version of what actually happened. I had to make some tough decisions on what to cut out and what to leave in. I'm sad that I decided to cut out Rikimaru entirely. He made some really good digs regarding grammar and the biggest troll ever that are priceless. Unfortunately, this would have run too long if I included all of the posts necessary for any of it to make sense. Go check out the whole thread, though. Riki goes apeshit on somebody somewhere around page 15.
As always none of the names have been changed to protect the innocent, but their avatars have been for my own amusement. There will be a poll at the upper right of your screen, where you can pick the fight's winner. Remember to vote early and often! I will be snowmobiling in red. Let's get it on....
~anybody who's played them?, please tell me what you did because I want whatever you're smoking, and lots of it! PLEASE SHARE YOUR TACTICS HERE!
~huh? your parenthetical statement has confused me. There seems to be a disconnect between it and the rest of your sentence
High strength low ap weapons are good, the're all you really need for necron bashing
~there were links provided and this was barely on topic...
There's a reason those army lists are so similar. That essential build is the only competitive all-comers build available to Tau. So if you want a strongly competitive army, that's what you need to use. ~the Tau evangelist network is very active
This is very important because that build gives you a lot of AP 3+ weaponry. Forcing 'crons to rely on their WBB rolls only is key to killing them off. If you aren't using low-AP weaponry -- 'cause you've loaded up on flamers, burst cannons, and pulse rifles instead -- then you're not going to be killing 'crons reliably enough or quickly enough.
Secondly, use that army list build correctly. My tactica will help you out there.
Thirdly, with Necrons the most important thing is to kill entire units. ~oh sweet, you didn't completely disregard the original post You must keep shooting at a unit with everything until every last model is dead. Kill every model and they won't be allowed WBB rolls. (Res Orb notwithstanding, of course.)
Fourthly, prioritize your targets correctly.
1. Destroyer Lord
3. Res Orb Lord (and whatever unit he's in)
Do you see the Monolith on that list? No? ~well, I do now! Then don't shoot at it. EVER. ~could you repeat that? It wasn't quite clear enough I don't care if you have 6 railguns, don't shoot at the monolith. Railguns will Instant Death every Necron model ... and that means NO WBB! Put the fear of Phase Out in the 'crons good, and put that fear in them early. The only way to do that is to kill 'crons off ASAP. If you're killing 'crons quickly, the 'cron general will be forced to TP 'crons through the 'lith portal for extra WBB chances ... which means its main guns can't shoot at you. ~so many acronyms Which leads me to...
Fifthly, no matter what the game mission is, go for phase out. Make no efforts to obtain objectives. Don't worry about KPs. Kill 'cron models and nothing but 'cron models and phase them out. This is really not that hard to accomplish. Especially if the 'cron player was foolish enough to include any monoliths. Every 'lith taken is a unit of Necrons that can't be put ont the table, making the Phase Out target that much easier to reach. You should thank every Necron player who takes even a single Monolith. They are doing you a big favor. ~thank you monolith players
~oh sweet Tau are an autowin button apparently. No player, no matter how bad can ever lose with the Tau. They have replaced Dark Angels as the most broken modern codex.
just out of interest: How do you handle things like Drop Podding assault troops that can assault straight out of drop pod or fast-moving anti-tank spam like DE Raider lists? ~weren't we talking Necrons at some point here?
Also, as I see all the good Tau lists seem to be awfully short on troop choices. Considering that 2/3rds of all games are objective ones whenever I see a list (of any army) that is short on troops I usually start the game by killing off all his troops practically forcing him into a situation where he can't win anymore except by annihilation. That tends to mess up most opponents plans badly, ~how the fuck good were his plans to begin with if he lost all his scoring units early on? especially if he is running a gun-heavy, avoid-the-close-combat-like-plague list. How would you handle such tactic?
~well that was certainly....curt. For no reason even. Play nice 6 or it's back to the resurrection ships with you
Deep striking armies are a breeze to defeat. Podding Marines are almost as easy to beat as Necrons.
Step 1: Build the list properly. See my tactica for that build.
Step 2: Deploy the list properly. See my tactica for that deployment.
Step 3: Slaughter the opponent while suffering the acceptable losses of all your throwaways (i.e., multiple Kroot and Piranha units).
Step 4: ?????
Step 5: Profits
When deployed and played properly, no deep-striking army can penetrate the Tau castle. (Exception: 'nids with multiple mawlocs.) ~yes, especially now that we have a FAQ that definitively tells us we can. In your face retards who thought mawlocs couldn't deep strike on units. Oh we're still talking about Necrons, fuck Marines drop down piecemeal and are destroyed piecemeal. Daemons drop down piecemeal and are destroyed piecemeal. FNP and invul saves do not help against the bucketfulls of high-strength dice the Tau player gets to roll.
Good Tau armies exchange wussy Troops that can't generate offense for units with serious offensive power. Like kroxigor said, if the opponent attempts to kill our little FW units hiding in AV 12 Devilfish with permanent 4+ cover rather than trying to deal with our MOAR GUNZ instead, he is going to swiftly be shot off the table. That's how much firepower is available.
I'm not saying Tau are unbeatable. All of the 5e armies can play us on essentially equal terms ... provided they themselves are built properly. ~I recommend glue for properly building your army
Daemons are a 4th edition army and also suffer from having to arrive piecemeal by deep strike. Given average dice and equal skill at generalship, Tau will beat them each and every game hands down.
Drop pod Marines are a terrible army build, period. Tau will beat them each and every game hands down. (In fact, most armies should be able to defeat Drop pod marines, that's how poor the army build is.) People who play drop pod Marines don't know how to use their codex properly.
And as I said earlier, Necrons ~shit, I forgot that we were even talking about Necrons are the worst 40K army in existence. Tau -- heck, almost anybody, even drop pod Marines --- will beat them each and every game hands down.
~Wow, even the OP forgot about Necrons. It's bad enough that they have a shitty codex, but do we really need to snub them in threads dedicated to them as well?
~ZOMG quit yelling
~I looked and looked, but I'll be damned if I can even figure out what that is in reference to. It's ok though, it just makes Kizzy seem even crazier than he is. Oh well, at least we're talking about Necrons again where even if you block my door, i can disembark anywhere 2" around the monolith.... DUR! xD
~whoa you said shit in a forum; is that allowed? Too bad you couldn't have saved it for a sentence that makes any fucking sense
RULES FAILURE #1: Emergency disembarking appeared in 5th ed.
~dude, seriously what the fuck is wrong with your tenses? If a book is in print or current a rule APPEARS in it stating that IF a point of disembarking is BLOCKED, Emergency disembark may be performed! DING! READ YOUR RULE BOOK NUBLET! ~and it goes on to say that if they still can't emergency disembark they're destroyed. Ding read your rule book you fucktard halfwit piece of shit! Plus that rule only applies to when a vehicle is destroyed, not when units come in from reserve through a portal. Now you're thinking with portals- oh boy more memes, that won't get old
Second. even after deep striking, the monolith may still fire it's particle whip! (str 9, AP 3/1)
~FNIF rule #2: if you're losing an argument make up rules FAILBOAT #2! ~teh pwnge meme rule 32 consequences will never be the same!!1! Look I can do that too
3rd....the monolith CAN NOT MISHAP. YOUR UNITS WILL MOVE WHEN I PUT IT ON TOP OF YOUR BROADSIDE! ~true: yes. Tactically unsound: also yes
~it is if you're trying to punish your monolith pilots for doing something bad Ask Marines how long their land raiders typically last. Go check out any number of earlier posts in this very topic to see how much Tau players respect the Monolith. (Answer: very very little.) AV 14 doesn't frighten us. Being shoved aside isn't a problem when nothing else happens as a result of it. And nothing else will because the Monolith is helpless when it deep strikes. It can't do a darned thing other than sit there and be destroyed. Assuming we even care about it, that is. ~wait a minute, I thought we weren't supposed to ever shoot the monolith. I don't know what to believe in any more
~logic and reading comprehension failure number 2,001. My face? Palmed as soon as you started typing
YOU AS A TAU PLAYER...FAIL!Some experienced Necron player he is. ~super confused, when did number6 say he played Necrons? He's done almost nothing but talk about Tau since he got here, lol Haha. Thank you 6.
i think a flying circus would DEFINATELY be your bane. you sit there on your table edge and try to shoot, i will force moral and make you run off the table. ~I don't believe that Tau and Kroot are subject to the same morality as you. Greater good and all that rot, you know...
Try fighting this 2500 list ~try not taking up a fuck load of space- 4x 10 Warriors. Was that so god damned hard?
lord and misc equip (usually SOLAR PULSE, and res orb
Lord with destroyer body, res orb, and phase shifter.
10 flayed ones
10 flayed ones
that is a wonderful anti-tau list. the wraiths run with the lord and orb. both flayed ones will DS ~I really am trying to think up a Nintendo joke here, but am falling short. Let's just pretend that I did and you laughed, both monoliths will deep strike. (and should you run out of room on the table and not be able to move your units out of the way.....hehehehe.) destroyers are usually in range to begin with, and the necron warriors will walk out and take objectives. both squads of wraiths will run near eachother and the lord on body. therefor ALWAYS giving my wraiths WBB rolls. i will usually kill off my necron lord before i kill of my last wraith (face it, wraiths are *epiq* against tau) ~please use some more l33t haxor speech. It's quite endearing
your kroot will not last against the flayed ones either. they are your BANE! ~I'm bored and angry. Let's talk about something else. Did anybody else think that Batman's crippling was a little lame? especially with their....EH leadership. and no power weapons means i will get my 3+ armor in CC. and my 4+ WBB, with a mono to re-roll, and then RE CHARGE the combat!
i have thought about pulling a mono and putting in immortals and giving the foot lord viel ~i before e unless after c. oh and v apparently. Unless you are German and trying to say that you wanted to give your lord a lot of something and RO so he can also join the deep striking fun!... but the mono's are my capstone.
AND. if i am going against something other than tau, i run monoliths as a wall...because only TAU have a decent chance to kill them, i will plant them in front of my line and run them straight in. demolishing whatever they can reach while my warriors and foot sloggers advance untouched. ~still rambling I see. How's that working out for you?
So stop talking crap about necrons. ~Necrons suck! O'Doyle Rules They over see tau in 5th ed. i will neva lose to tau. (mainly cuz i play them and necrons both, and i know how both armies work! )
EDIT: 71 Necron units with 25% being 17.75. 18 being a round number ~you mean whole number, jackass. Trying to sound smart usually works best if you aren't a complete idiot, but being more than 25%, so 16 being the Phase out number. killing 55 Necrons is not as easy as you think.
~Zing! I love it when people start mocking idiots by turning their own words against them Haha. Thank you 6.
A list that comes in dribs and drabs and allows me to focus the firepower of my entire army at 1-2 units at a time? You may as well be feeding me kill points! ~om nom nom
Tailoring list is poor form in my opinion since it proves nothing. Make an "all comers" list, I don't tailor my lists at all. I make a generic list that can deal with any army. Tailoring is very '90's. ~maybe Kizzy is still tight rolling his jeans and listening to NKOTB. You never know
[Skarsgard]...Hope you realized how much your wonderful tau player number6 just got EPIC PWNED BY THE RULES! WAHOO! ~Seriously just shut the fuck up. You are making me physically ill
Also, This is for Polaria.
They say that once they have played tau and then something else, they could never put the tau down. thing is, ~you know what they say- once you go Tau you'll never go ::something clever that rhymes with Tau:: They dont realize how WEAK tau actually are. ~well they can lift those huge ass pulse rifles, so they must not be that weak
They have IG shooting abilities. sure, a marker light will help.
Their toughest units are EASILY insta-gibbed. HEY! you know that squad of 3 crisis suits with T4 and 2W each? guess what! my monolith just INSTAGIBBED THEM ALL! WOOHOO! ~oh yeah, well I'm going to keelhaul all your Necron warriors on my Devil Fish. See how they like that
Also, they do NOT GET A PERMANANT 4+ COVER ON THEIR VECHILES! Read that entry again! it is up to 12"! and that is rapid fire for us! once a unit is within 12", there is no cover save!
They have lots of weapons! WOOT! one reason i loved tau was their weapon selection...its quite rediculus. ~as are your spelling, punctuation, grammar, social skills, reading comprehension, and creative thinking skills that was one thing i loved about the tau....but on the other hand, necrons will SHOOT on a 3, and WOUND on a 3/2,(denying armor 1/2 the time) where tau will SHOOT on a 4, and WOUND on a 3/2, denying armor 1/6 the time... ~50% of all statistics can be made up. seriously how are you figuring the armor save thing without talking about a specific weapon against a specific target?
What tau players DO NOT understand (and this is why i quit tau!) ~you sure it wasn't because you suck at life? is that i have an 18 point unit (warrior) that is TOUGHER than their 35 pt unit (a tricked out crisis suit) that have about the SAME statline, except wounds and initiave. ~and guns and movement and footprint and blah blah blah i will ALWAYS get my WBB (assuming i have a res-orb, which i usually do), and i have the opportunity to RE ROLL those failed WBB rolls as well.
the tau have a MAJOR flaw...They are SQUISHY. suits are easily insta gibbed by most of our units. (heavy D's ~can you handle it....shit if you got that reference without google or wikipedia, you win the Internet, Mono, and the Tomb spider can do wonders on them too.)
An easy idea for necrons is to run Heavy D's ~keep it comin' with a lord and orb. after the first turn, you can seperate them, but this will ensure their wbb vs the broadsides. The Heavy D's ~like dat dhere will 1shot kill a broadside. No armor, and im pretty sure it is double toughness (broadsides are T4 im sure), so heavy D's ~Let it Rain will EASILY earn their points back by taking out 2 broadsides. (if they use shield drones, thats even better! they are more likely to fail leadership by doing that.)
one thing i have noticed about tau is: They dont know how to properly play. Number6 MIGHT know how to play tau (from the way he talks, i hope so.) but i NEVER field shield drones with ANY UNIT. they are expensive, and you can achieve the same effect by putting your unit in a crator! ~Not sure what the fuck a crator is, but somehow I fear its powers WOOHOO! (i see a lot of idiot tau players run 2 drones with their broadsides. FUNNY STUFF MAN!) ~wound allocation much? or want to always have cover and not have to worry about terrain?
The WBB STOPPERS! ALRIGHT! HERE IS A FUN TOPIC!
Tau have LITTLE to prevent WBB on necrons. fusion blasters and railgun shots are it. ~oh so 2 weapons that Tau use a lot of and both are expensive, and only get a single shot. they are meant as tank killers. Lemme point something out to you tau players....NECRON WARRIORS ARE NOT TANKS! we do have a save! it is called WBB! and AP1 does not Deny it!
i say, if you want to waste your broadside shots on necron warriors, go for it. with a lord and destroyer body, i can EASILY change tactics and put a res-orb where it is needed. my little lascannon destroyer shots CAN take you and your crisis suits. ~only 1 way to settle this. Lunch hour by the monkey bars
And let's not forget. the monolith is TALL...it can see where nothing can see ~I'm scared, the monolith can see into my soul. It knows my secrets. so you know that cover save you THINK you have?....Bye bye!
number6, you sound a lot like my marine friend who just went against my necron army in a 10k point appocolypse game. MY TERMIES HAVE 2+ ARMOR AND 3+ INVUL WITH THEIR HAMMER AND SHIELD!....BULL SHIT, ~I'm calling BULL SHIT on you. You don't have the social skills necessary to maintain friendships you will still die. you dont have a 1+ armor save, so i am not scared to shoot you. Tau have this and that and a cover save, and i can do this....Dude, Your done talking. i will show you a real necron army, as i have participated in 'ard boys as a necron player, and Took FIRST (vs orks, sm, sm, dark eldar, IG, Chaos marines, tau, and space wolves.). ~sweet. That's verifiable and proves anything
Where did the tau place in that? 6th. and i would say that would be because there was an autistic kid there that took 7th, and a guy that had been playing 40k for 3 days (space wolf player) that took last. ~and a dick-waving douche bag loud mouthed fuck stick who supposedly took first
and i gotta say, that tau player fielded an army...quite a lot like the ones you have in your "Guides" ~for the last fucking time, lists are not the end all be all of 40k. Red lasers, blue lasers, and being a good player make up the other half of the battle..............
Rules of Librarium Online (rule #5 applies). ~haha, you got the mods involved. well done dickhead
Second, your posts are strongly antagonistic and seem to goad people into a reaction, rather than using sound reason to make your case. Also, from now on, let's try and tone down the excessive use of the CAPS lock. ~this is too much, I think I just pissed myself laughing
You can only "emergency disembark" when the vehicle is destroyed. So yes, you can put your teleported necron models anywhere within 2" of the hull ... provided the vehicle has been destroyed.
So which is it? Is your monolith alive? ~according to the codex it's living metal 'Cause if it is, even the Necron FAQ clearly states that all models must be placed within 2" of the Portal. And the BRB states that any time you are forced to put models down but they legally can't be placed there they are destroyed. Well, to be more accurate, they suffer a deep strike mishap because you get a generous ruling from the Necron FAQ. See p. 3 of it. ~wow, that's really generous actually
Or is the monolith automatically destroyed just by somebody blocking the Portal so you can place your Necrons within 2" of the hull anywhere you like?
It's one or the other, KizzyPop. It can't be both. The FAQ is your own enemy on this one.
You fail at reading.
Re: Rules Failure #2 where KizzyPop declares that the Monolith can fire at cruising speed...
What Necron FAQ do you have? I have it right in front of me, and no such exception exists.
Allow me to refamiliarize you with the basic rules of the game, since you clearly don't know them. ~This may be the one time I have ever seen somebody get completely talked down to and not been upset by it. Kizzy needs and deserves this treatment
1. Movement. This is the phase where your Monolith arrives via deep strike and counts as having moved at Cruising Speed.
2. Shooting. This is where vehicles may fire weapons if they have either not moved or have moved no faster than Combat Speed. Vehicles may not fire any weapons if they have moved faster than Combat Speed (e.g., Cruising Speed). We have already established that Fast vehicles have slightly different rules for this, but Monoliths aren't Fast so we don't care about those differences.
Aaaand ... I don't see any exceptions for the Monolith in the FAQ. Where do you see them? ~they're in his head, trust me.
You still fail at reading. ~and you're failing at being nice, but Imma let you finish
When you start playing 40K by the rules, we can talk. Until then, you're playing a completely different game of your own design: Kizzy40K. ~Kizzy40k 5th ed. Now with more made up rules Sounds like a terrible game to me.
~not if it's irrelevant and doesn't prove anything. Oh it's not and it doesn't. Well then no I'd rather you didn't do the ponderous rule
Ponderous:The monolith is a skimmer which can move up to 6" a turn.........................................
the word CAN is an infinitive. ~can isn't an infinitive verb. Again I feel obliged to remind you that trying to sound smart only works if you are UP TO (this is all taken from the DICTIONARY) gives the literal definition of MAXIMUM. to the LIMIT. Crusing speed (as we are given from the rule book) is any speed more than combat speed. ~except flat out. were you trying to prove something other than that you're retarded? we know that combat speed is 6" or less, and that means 6" for the monolith is ALL that it may move. PERIOD. ~unless it deep strikes where it's considered moving at cruising speed. If you really need a reason as to why it can't fire, just pretend that the pilot is concentrating on landing or phasing in or whatever and can't shoot. Then punish him by sending him into the mouth of a Tau gunline (Thank you dictionaries! i <3 you all!) ~thank you American public school system. You have fucked over an entire generation
~I have to admit that reading good logic just isn't as fun as reading insane ramblings. We need more KizzyPop
The Necron codex says the Monolith can't move more than 6". Yet it also states that it can deep strike.
Do you not see the conflict here? How can the monolith be absolutely restricted from traveling more than 6" -- as you yourself just argued -- and yet still be capable of deep striking?
The two rules are mutually exclusive. ~careful, I'm pretty sure you're going to lose Kizzy on this one If you continue to insist that the Monolith can never move more than 6", you must, by the rules of 40K, also insist that despite what the codex says, it cannot deep strike. ~ow my brain
Only a special "when the monolith deep strikes it counts has having moved no further than 6 inches" rules exemption in the codex or the FAQ would allow you to have your cake and eat it, too.
No such rule exists in either the codex or the FAQ, of course. And seeing as the FAQ was written specifically for the old Necron codex in 5th edition 40K, GW could have provided it if they wanted to.
They didn't want to.
Which means: you don't get to have your cake and eat it, too. You have to actually play the game by GW's rules. As written.
Most reasonable people not KizzyPop assume that this is actually a very simple thing to solve. Just let deep striking monoliths follow all the normal rules in the BRB. Which means that when it deep strikes, it counts as having moved at Cruising Speed, which prohibits it from firing any weapons, duly noting that neither the codex nor the FAQ have any verbiage that conflicts with this interpretation ~ooh more ten cent words. Boning up for the SATs?
~well your inability to properly quote idioms never ceases to amaze me to amaze me! the logic isnt flawed. look again. a maximum DOES state that it CANT move cruising speed ~AHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU ASSHOLE ....Hmm.............................but yet there are 2 definitions of "Crusing speed" in there that you have not yet checked! therefor, you so far seem too stupid to find it....hmm, thats why i havent argued the ponderous rule any further is because of this mysterious second definition. ~in case you were wondering, Kizzy does live in the US, so I'm assuming that English is his native language or he at least uses it daily. I'm as surprised as you are
you know nothing about necrons.
the phrase "May be used when the monolith moves, is shaken or stunned" ~for starters you're misquoting a rule and adding shit to it to make it prove your point. It doesn't. Second, that rule is only there to refer to the "drifting" rule for stationary skimmers that no longer applies in the current rules edition means ALL movement. Read up on your english language and phrases smart guy.
~I think you're my favorite mod ever
Any more outbursts or insults and you'll lose your privileges on this site. Clear?
For your own records, 'can' isn't an infinitive verb (i.e., to run, to walk, to laugh), but rather, an auxiliary verb. If you want to get technical, it's a modal auxiliary verb. ~Kizzy you just got trolled by a fucking mod. how sad is that for you? and it's certain now, rabbit is my favorite mod ever
~done listening to you now. thanks for playing FNIF, have a nice life
second, i have not been beat, never will be beat. ~I was talking to somebody the other day about how my internet persona is slowly becoming Muhammad Ali. Looks like Kizzy beat me to it every necron player plays by the rules of deepstriking in their face and blasting the hell out of the opponet, then second turn it's the GFA that fires!
like i said, Check INAT (Which is what a lot of tournament stores use), and they will tell you the same damn thing (V. 3.3 is most up to date) ~oh god, do we really need to drag an unofficial FAQ into this. I'm not even going to bother reading what you cited and just assume that you got it wrong.
oh, and your wins at 'ard boys? Good job. Now do it with a 3rd ed codex of Tau and see how well ya do! *Smartass smile* ~*dumbass insult*
You tau players are the cockiest SOB's ~well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle stupid i have ever met. Stop trying to cheat other "Broken" Codexes out of their given rules, and play like you are a real 40k player and stop whining. ~only if you stop making shit up
*WIN!* ~new rule: declaring your own actions to be a win is really a fail. Now let's turn to rabbit to see what you've won.....
Seriously, we all saw this coming. ~but were hoping it wouldn't, this was too fucking funny
*thread hammered closed*
Well, it actually got opened up again, but KizzyPop was suspiciously absent from what followed. Not sure if he got banned or just realized that suicide was the only way out. Hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I "enjoyed" writing it. Cheers.